Marietta Junction to Chickies

The Reading, Marietta and Hanover Railroad

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This abandoned railroad right-of-way originally started out on paper as the Hanover Junction and Susquehanna Railroad; a reorganization in 1881 created the Reading, Marietta and Hanover Railroad which built between Marietta Junction and Chickies, on the Pennsylvania Railroad's Columbia Branch. The RM&H was a subsidiary of the Reading and Columbia Railroad. Construction was completed in 1883 and included two passenger trains each way along the 6.5-mile line.

Stations along the line:

  • Marietta Junction
  • Copenheffer
  • Florinel
  • Chickies

Thanks to Jeff Coleman for contributing information about this route.

Would like to see any pictures or maps of the Marietta branch. I'm looking for the way it tied into the trolly line, and a spur off of that line. thanks

george shinkosky
marietta, PA
2/25/2013

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If you go to the Creekside cafe they have a photo on their wall showing the trolley line crossing this branch at a diamond with the trolley crossing the creek immediately and coming down onto the concrete piers you see on the east side of rt441. The trolley line zigzags down the north side of chickies hill and there is not much visible evidence remaining.

Dan Trump
Marietta, PA
2/28/2013

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Thanks Dan. I have seen that photo, great piece of history. Looking for a map or photo that shows the spur that goes out by Drager's farm, at the little and big Chickies split. The concrete bridge supports are still there.

George Shinkosky
Marietta , PA
2/28/2013

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I came across the chain for a request for the route map and there was a comment about remaining piers at the Little/Big Chickies split. I believe that may be in error. The line crossed the current Marietta Ave farther east, just east of Forinel. You can still see much of the road bed until it turns north towards Landisville. On some satellite maps you can still see a ghost of the bed as it curves through a field towards Landisville. My question is about the piers aforementioned. There are also piers for a bridge from when the old Marietta Ave went under some tracks. There is also an old road bed back behind Chickies Park. I suspect this was a shortline to a stone quarry or something to supply the iron mills, but it does not show on any maps that I've come across. The piers right along the Chickies appear to have span for a road, but I have not seen such on any old map. I have recently seen a map where the RM&H split to the north at Florinel and was more parallel to RT23 until it crossed the Chickies and then curved back south and joined the still visible road bed. I found this hard to believe because of the terrain, and for what reason?

Do you have any information about the route I've mention that used the piers at the Little/Big Chickies split?

Jim English
Middletown, PA
6/30/2013

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Those piers were for the Columbia and Donegal Electric Railway trestle, and eventually the rest of this line, just the trolley line.

http://www.mariettapa.net/trolley.html

The old railbed the crosses Marietta Ave more East than this is the http://www.abandonedrails.com/Reading_and_Columbia_Railroad

Wes B
Carlisle, PA
7/1/2013

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Was there a trolley branch that went to Mount Joy? The Columbia to Marietta trolley followed the Donegal Creek until it hit Marietta Ave and then turn into town. Going east on Rt23/Marietta Ave, the next crossing is at Drager Road and this is the old railbed in question. The RM&H crossed just yards east of Forinell and yes, the Columbia branch of the Reading line crossed in Silver Spring and these tracks were just pulled several years ago.

Jim English
Marietta, PA
7/3/2013

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About George's observation of the concrete abutments by Drager's farm, I've been researching all the rail lines in the area and believe this might have been an ill-fated extension of the Columbia & Donegal that went by the name of Columbia, Ironville & Mt. Joy Street Railway. Some construction was done by 1900 but the company was bankrupt by 1901. Can anyone confirm this to be the case?

Brad
Houston, TX
8/25/2013

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That's very interesting, so they had planned a line to Mount Joy probably roughly following the Llittle Chiques. The road bed leading to the abutements near Drager indicates that the extension would have initiated somewhere near the Chiques Creek, but wouldn't it have made more sense to have the trolley stop at Marietta first and then continued to Mount Joy, but they could have back tracked? Surely, the extension to Ironville would have been totally unrelated to anything that we are discussing on this side of the Chiques Rock. Maybe these types of decisions is the source of the ill fatedness and Conestoga Traction had no interest in it either.

Jim English
Marietta, PA
8/27/2013

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Jim,

If you have some way of getting me your email address I can send you some work I've done on this.

You are right on the mark as to stopping in Marietta first from what I think to be the case. Don't read too much into the name of the company including "Ironville", just as If you did, the Reading, Marietta and Hanover would have been in both Reading and Hanover (and Marietta too, and technically I don't think it even got there.)

There are also bits of information that lead me to believe there was also a company by the name of Columbia & Ironville that appears to have been folded into Conestoga Traction. My guess is that it was the remains of the CI&MtJ and that Conestoga Traction picked it up just to keep it out of anyone else's hands.

There's a lot of guesswork here but sometimes you just have to take the evidence and draw your own conclusions until better information comes along.

Brad
Houston, TX
8/27/2013

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The RM&H must have terminated in the heart of the iron mills and not really served Marietta proper, but is an easy walk. The trolley on the other hand went down Market Street to the square.

I'm curious to see what you have. The address you can use is jaekl67@yahoo.com. With Conestoga acquiring everything in 1899 makes this 1900 extension appear as if old management from Columbia & Donegal was trying to start a new venture.

This doesn't exactly apply to the RM&H. Is there a site that covers trolley history?

Jim English
Marietta, PA
8/27/2013

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I have walked the paths of both of those spurs. The one in question, shows up on a 1875 historic map of east hempfield. It came out of the iron works and crossed 441 crossed the trolly path and snaked out through Lombards farm now Chickies park. You can still see the path where the other spur came in from silver springs on the side of of Chickies hill, where the trolly crossed. In the spring it is very visible. On the spur in question I have found ties in the ground and a cast Iron road marker. It's a path in the county park now, but clearly their. Would like to find photos of the bridge crossing rt. 23 at Dragers farm.

george
marietta, PA
8/28/2013

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George,I've walked the roadbed behind the park as well. What other spur have you walked? Your 1875 map sounds like the rail map I viewed on Ebay. As I mentioned earlier it branched off of the RM&H at Florinel and paralleled Marietta Ave and turned south to join the mainline along the Chiques. Are you thinking that the Drager abutments are this spur? For what purpose, to serve what? There is a big elevation change from Florinel to the abutments.

I've received some documents from Brad that includes talks of trolley expansion to Mount Joy and that lead him to believe it's a trolley line.

Jim_english
Marietta, PA
8/28/2013

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Hi Jim, Would love to B.S. with you about the rails. my cell is 333-2844 Local history is a real turn on. Steve B. helped me a lot with photos of the area, would like to collect them all. I don't know any other way to contact, my email is brainaxil666@yahoo.com.

george shinkosky
marietta, PA
8/28/2013

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Here is the eBay link to the map showing the spur off of the RM&H at Florinel. After looking at it again, it may be using the roadbed we are talking about. Take a look at the eight picture.

George, your email didn't work. My number is 209-1599, best after 6.

Jim English
Marietta, PA
8/28/2013

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I had a look at that map on eBay and very much doubt the existence of that looping line to the west off the line of the RM&H that we know to have existed. The 1940 aerial photo shows not even a trace that such a line existed, and there isn't anything that would have caused the grading of that loop to have been wiped out. In addition, it shows the RM&H crossing the creek to the north side next to Chickies Ridge and linking up with that loop. No evidence of that arrangement ever existed either. 1908 Middletown Quad shows nothing like this, and the topography is not favorable to that loop line. I don't have an explanation as to why the map shows the RM&H and the loop that way. Perhaps the mapmaker was having a bad day.

The "mystery" grade with abutments west of the creek clearly stands alone and reaches farther north than the loop depicted in that map and dead-ends at the Drager farm. I can't prove 100% that it was an attempt to build a trolley line to Mt. Joy but I feel more certain of that than it ever having been associated with the RM&H.

Only $255 and that questionable map can be yours! I believe I saw for purchase a Lancaster County atlas from 1899. It shows the RM&H the way it certainly appears to have been located (south of the Chickies all the way). That one would set you back about $450.

Brad
Houston, TX
8/28/2013

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Brad, those prices are way out of my league. I noticed the same misalignments. I found a source of old aerial photos like the one you sent me. I opened a different one and appears to be the area at the end of this line looked more like something as you initially thought. It looks like the remains of a yard and a building or two. Perhaps the HPMJ&L wouldn't allow the RM&H any real estate to make up a train and assuming there was an exchange of shipments. This area might have been the closest available flat lot. However, The Reading line could have done that in Columbia and then finish the train in Landisville. Surely the RM&H were on talking terms with the Reading & Columbia. Then again that field could have been a depot for something and was run by either railroad. We need witnesses. It's only 113 years.

jimEnglish
Marietta, PA
8/29/2013

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You guys are hard to convince. I just found another piece of evidence to strengthen the case that the "Drager Farm mystery grade and bridge abutments" would have been a trolley line...if it had been completed. The 1895 "Street Railway Review" mentions the Columbia, Ironville & Mt. Joy Electric Railway in three different places. At one place in that volume it indicates a franchise was granted to that company, in another it indicates that line "will be built", but the kicker is in the other reference. In that third reference, which is a table of projected interurban lines throughout the US, it indicates a terminal to terminal Columbia-Mt. Joy length of 6 miles. Now, 6 miles isn't enough to get from Columbia to Mt. Joy; it isn't enough to get from Ironville to Mt. Joy, but it was enough to get from the end of the Columbia & Donegal at or near Marietta to Mt. Joy, which is an extension to the Columbia & Donegal as the promoters suggested in another document. Note that this publication was geared to the street railway supply industry, which means that the readers would be interested in how much material they could sell, not how long a trip it would be from end-to-end, and the reason it would show 6 miles rather than the actual length of the trip all the way from Columbia to Mt. Joy.

Brad
Houston, TX
8/29/2013

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"The one in question, shows up on a 1875 historic map of east hempfield." George do you still have access to that map? Can you make it a link? You say it shows starting at the iron mills, so it may even be an independent shortline. Does the map show anything at the end at the Drager farm, and did it continue any? The 1940 and 1957 aerial photos show images of multiple sidings just like they show up at Armstrong Ceiling plant from when it was a depot. The aerials suggest it curved along the ridge above the open park area and came up parallel to the structure to the north east of the Lombard barn. It then looks like it continued north towards Rt23. I have to take a look at some of my old maps because a recall noting a line going around behind Mt Pleasant, but didn't look like the trolley line. There are two lanes coming up to Mt Pleasant road. The higher southern one probably was the trolley that then curved westward behind the mansion going to Market Street. The lower one comes out very close to Rt23. Is it an old grade or just a lane?

Brad, I'm still open either way, just probing the possibilities.

Jim English
Marietta, PA
8/29/2013

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I found this map http://www.historicmapworks.com/Map/US/14366/West+Hempfield++Mountville++Salunga/Lancaster+County+1875/Pennsylvania/ You can get a sneak peak. It's a little like the ebay map but the spur comes off more west from Florinell and basically heads due west to end up very close to the terminus of RM&H. Very well could have been proposed or really bad map makers.

Jim English
Marietta, PA
8/29/2013

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Aha!!! That explains it. An 1875 map showing the line as the "Eastern Division - Hanover Junction & Susquehanna"...which wasn't yet built. The HJ&S was reorganized as the RM&H and built in 1888...so what you see on the map was a projected line (lines)...not the actual on-the-ground railroad. I was thinking that the map on eBay showing that loop off the RM&H might have been based off a projected line rather than the actual line because the line was built in 1888 and that map was printed in 1891. Sometimes in the good old days there was a big time lag between when the surveying for the map was done and when it was printed, so in fact even the 1891 map may have been based on the projected route and not the one it actually took. Now it's looking more like that was the case. The lines look very much like the 1875 map.

That was a great find at Historic Map Works. I was trying to find that 1875 atlas, but you did it. However, the railroad you're pointing to wasn't "real".

Brad
Houston, TX
8/29/2013

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That ties some items down. I'll have to go snooping around those abutments for some dates. Everybody dates concrete. Is there any possibility that the end of this unknown route was a pumping station for the Crescent pipeline? You map shows it a lot closer to the ridge, but map skills have been less than top notch. I'm sure the company had more detailed maps kept internally.

Jim English
Marietta, PA
8/29/2013

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My best educated guess, and it's only a guess, is that the Crescent Pipeline pumping station was east of Florinel, west of Kinderhook Rd, and between the RM&H and the Chickies Creek. It is my understanding that the pumping station had a rail siding for the delivery of coal to feed a boiler for the steam pumps. If you look very closely at the 1940 aerial photo in the area as described above you see what might be the trace of a rail siding grade curving from the RM&H grade to the northwest and going into an area that looks "disturbed" like it had been an industrial area. Through this area I recall reading that the route of the pipeline roughly followed the Marietta Pike. I have a 1933 track chart of the R&C and it has a notation at Bruckarts where the pipeline crossed under the railroad and indeed it was very close to the Marietta Pike there ...shown as (5" W.I.P.) ... 5 inch Wrought Iron Pipe.

Brad
Houston, TX
8/29/2013

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I might have found the witness and not that long ago. I had some time so I rode down to Drager Road to see if there were any markings on the road side. None, but I didn't bother to look far because I had just talked to a local home owner. He's only been there three years but had also been asking about the abutments. He had an opportunity to talk to the previous previous owner who was born there and is in her eighties. He had learned that the line was used to carry supplies to and from the various mills in the area in what he was told were dinky cars, not actually a railroad at all. She recalls seeing the cars going by often. It's a tight window to the 1940 aerial shots but is possible.

Jim English
Marietta, PA
8/29/2013

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My best educated guess, and it's only a guess, is that the Crescent Pipeline pumping station was east of Florinel, west of Kinderhook Rd, and between the RM&H and the Chickies Creek. It is my understanding that the pumping station had a rail siding for the delivery of coal to feed a boiler for the steam pumps. If you look very closely at the 1940 aerial photo in the area as described above you see what might be the trace of a rail siding grade curving from the RM&H grade to the northwest and going into an area that looks "disturbed" like it had been an industrial area. Through this area I recall reading that the route of the pipeline roughly followed the Marietta Pike. I have a 1933 track chart of the R&C and it has a notation at Bruckarts where the pipeline crossed under the railroad and indeed it was very close to the Marietta Pike there ...shown as (5" W.I.P.) ... 5 inch Wrought Iron Pipe.

Brad
Houston, TX
8/29/2013

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Thanks so much for all of your help, Brad and Jim I think you have solved the mystery. Now all I need is a time machine to go back and see those steam engines and trollies going through our beautiful area, and relive those days. Historic Map works West Hempfield 1875 great map 1895 doesn't show both spurs free site

george shinkosky
marietta, PA
8/29/2013

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Hmm. That is some very interesting information, Jim! You and I both noted from the 1940 aerial photo that the area near the Drager farm looked like some kind of yard or industrial area, and also if you follow the line around the hill toward town it disappears into some kind of small industrial complex near where Conestoga Traction crossed the Chickies and the Donegal creeks. But what kind of industry would have generated enough business to build a dinky line out into the country? There were of course a bunch of furnaces around there, but for someone in their 80's to remember this, the industry must have operated up to and perhaps into the '30's.

But I'll throw out this possibility as well. If there had been a trolley grade already in place it would have been a ready made path for that dinky line. Such things happened elsewhere. This investigation is not over yet! Building that dinky like with bridges would have been a sizable expense unless it was already there...

One more observation. Don't know why I didn't try this before but I got onto Google Maps Street Level view. Of course the west abutment along Drager Rd is quite visible. I had noted that abutment as well as those at the Little Chiques on the satellite view. But the stunner was when I poked around the area on Route 23. Of course the current highway was realigned through there from the old Marietta Pike, and if you look down where the old road went south of the current highway, there's a couple of houses down there. If you look just to the west of those houses, what appears as though it might be an abutment is quite hidden in the trees where the line would have crossed the old pike. I couldn't see it very clearly on the 1940 aerial before, but once I saw it on the satellite view, I went back to the aerial and I think you can just barely see it.

Brad
Houston, TX
8/29/2013

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Yes, There was an overpass there, but are all overgrown now unless you ride down to those couple of houses. there had been a mill in that area as well. Your point about using a trolley has some merit because the road bed appears that it was standard gauge but if it was built for dinky use earlier in the 1800's it likely would have been some narrow gauge. Also there must have been some reason why it was so elevated. Everything in the Drager valley had to have been filled between those abutments. As I noted earlier the one at the Little Chiques has a surface pass through, but it was never a road. Given that the witness account is third or more hand, it's very likely that she had been told of the traffic as a child, but definitely saw it being pulled when it was no longer used.

I checked my 1908 map and it only shows the trolley line through the area but doesn't show it going into town for some reason.

Jim English
Marietta, PA
8/30/2013

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I have more information. At the Marietta Pig Iron Festival I asked the railroad buff who has a stand. From his research of the Reding Railroad, he has determined that the Drager abutments are the original right of way for the RM&H because it was serving Chickies Furnace Number 1 until stopped producing around 1890 as I recall. He tried to explain where it went from there and said there is some evidence remaining, but I couldn't quite follow. The information just kept flowing. I believe he said this was before Reading was operating the line and they built the trackage that we are more familiar with which was used up to 1930. He remembers seeing the rails crossing Rt 23 in Florinell as a kid. He also stated that this subject branch seldom if ever shows on any maps. He saw one map showing it as proposed but the map is post dated the abandonment of the line. It sees that all this conversation was infact on topic anyway. As to my witnes account, third hand, it's possible that the trackage remained after Reading's abandonment and they sold it to a third party and therfore is why it doesn't show on any maps. That then begs the question, who pulled up the rails if it was in private hands.

I have the guy's name and number if they are interested in talking to him.

Jim English
Marietta, PA
9/29/2013

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Hello. I own the 1837 Mill on Long Lane (between 441 and Rt23). My land butts up to Draegers. I was searching for old pictures of the Mill during the Trolley Days (it ran along the Donegal Creek on the Mill property)when I found your very informative posts. I have the remains of a concrete bridge going over the Donegal and I have found "Dinky" track. Back in the day, ore was minded behind the mill and removed using this track. There was also a Rolling Mill attached to my Grist Mill (estimate 1870). The Marietta Pike ran past the Mill's front door.

I would appreciate any and all info that anyone has on the Mill and it's property. Pictures taken of the mill from the trolley would be Fantastic! Maps showing the tracks going through the property would be appreciated.

Keith Brodfuehrer
Chickies, PA
1/26/2014

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Keith, you have caught our attention and you have a very good looking mill. Thank you for confirmation of the dinky line and why it was there. Do you have any idea when it was last used? Pulled? The roadbed from Chickies Creek and Drager Road is clear but the route past Long Lane is lost and of course private land. The trolley was on the other side of the Donegal Creek, so your bridge remains could be this subject (side subject) line. Where exactly was this rolling mill that was along Rt23? As you approach Rt23 on Point Pleasant Road, there are two level paths along the creek the higher one must have been the trolley as it started it's curve west to align with Market St. The lower one is very close to the creek. Could this have the end of the dinky line? Or is it just a lane?

Fairly modern maps show the road by your mill and comes out at Donegal Creek and Rt23, through the dairy farm. An older map also shows a Y off of Long Lane and a lane heading west towards your mill. Can you add anymore to this and are there any traces. Of course the road is now private.

Sorry about the rambling but there are many questions about that area. The furnaces are well covered but there seems to be nothing written about this dinky line which is so clear upstream (Chickies) from your mill.

Thanks.

Jim English
Marietta, PA
1/27/2014

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Keith, Jim and I have been digging into this for several months. Unfortunately we haven't found any relevant photographs. In fact, even the written history we've found so far is very sketchy. However, in order to facilitate the exchange of information beyond what you see on this board, I'm throwing my email out here if you would like to contact us directly (I already have Jim's as well as some others interested in this subject): bjknapp@comcast.net As a result of this renewed interest in this subject, I've just turned up a new piece of information that might be relevant.

Brad
Houston, TX
1/27/2014

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Spring is here and I had a bit of time this weekend to locate the trolley crossing of the RM&H. It's very easy to identify. There is a stone retaining wall along the south side where the road would have been close but higher than the RM&H.

Do we know anything about function of the RM&H? Was it just passenger service or was freight carried? The Landisville end is easy to envision typical operations since it was a rail yard. At the other end the map just shows it ending at the base of Chickies in a suggestive way that if continued as planned it would cross the mainline and cross the river on its way to Hanover. My concern is did they bother to move the loco to the other end of the train for the return trip? I know it's a fairly short line, but pushing was not considered preferred. (AMTRAK excepted) I can see with passenger service, a fired loco could wait for a returned trip, but for freight that it would not wait for the cars to be unloaded. Of course the cars could be left and others attached. Well now that escalates it to having some minimal yard/sidings. The area on the east side of 441 is wide enough to suggest at least double trackage that would easily have allowed some cars to remain and to have the loco to switch ends. I doubt they bothered turning the loco around. Assuming the cars were left for unloading and unloading, it doesn't appear feasible that that could be accomplished along this suggested siding. It's more likely that the local industry pulled the cars onto their own trackage either up or downstream.

Back to today. In walking west on the old road bed, the recently exposed stone structure is at the same elevation as the old roadbed and the width also suggest rail as opposed to a surface road as many have said. I think it's the first of a few piers for rails to transvers the low ground and maybe the creek. It definitely was used for the roadway before the current 441. It would have had to been for a previous one but it's way to far away from the creek to start a bridge for early vehicles. It may have been a toll bridge, but that would have been a huge investment. I still propose that the recently exposed pier is for the RM&H or the connection used to transport freight and make up a train.

Jim English
Marietta, PA
4/7/2014

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A side note. Recently some locals suggested that our unidentified right of way in this area was the spur used to bring iron ore in from Chestnut Hill/Grubb Lake near Silver Spring. It's more likely the ore came in on the Reading & Columbia line. On a 1940s aerial photo, there appears to be a siding coming around from the east into the Chestnut Hill quarry. If this is true, it would require extensive car transfers from Reading affiliates onto the PRR and multiple sidings along the PRR to serve the various furnaces. The terminous of the RM&H would have been a useful location.

Jim English
Marietta, PA
4/7/2014

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Thanks Jim for your input..I'm going to CHIPS in Columbia tonight to talk to the rail buffs there..I'm hoping Bud Heim might have some photos..Talked to Steve Bailey.. He didn't have any..I just walked the rail bed last week..very easy to trace..? did the trolly use the same tracks to get to Silver Springs and beyond......

George shinkosky
Marietta, PA
4/7/2014

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George, what trolley are you asking about? Brad has mentioned an Ironville branch in association with Donegal Trolley but it wasn't connected to the line to Marietta. I would image it followed Ironville Pike for the most part and Silver Spring is just down the other side. However, Silver Spring surely was serviced by the Reading and Columbia branch.

Jim English
Marietta, PA
4/7/2014

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What we lack is a good map showing where all the furnaces were located, and I'm not from the area so I don't know the history as well as that of my own turf. That said, it is my understanding that Chickies #1 Furnace was at the base of Chickies Rock. In other words, it was right at the tail end of the RM&H. In addition, the history says that although Chickies #1 was a Haldeman operation, he eventually teamed up with Grubb who had the quarry near Silver Spring. That quarry was served from a spur coming off the R&C, so it's not difficult to imagine an engine taking some ore from the pit, traveling up the R&C a short distance to the junction, and then taking the ore down the RM&H to Chickies #1, and that's my understanding of what was done. There would also have been the finished iron which would have been shipped out. If you Google "Sternbergh vs. Chickies Iron Co." you can find a court case that involved a carload of iron shipped on the P&R from Chickies to Reading.

As far as passenger business, I'm not aware of any. The only other business on the RM&H that I have heard about was taking coal to the Florinel oil pipeline pumping station.

Brad
Houston, TX
4/7/2014

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Gentlemen,

I may have an answer, of sorts, to your questions. I have been looking at the R&C page, and just happened across this one. As I stated on the other page, halfway up Chicque's Hill on the north side, there is a pull-off for a trail going out to the river. At this park, there is a board with an OLD map of the area - and it shows a LOT of rail lines in the Chicque's hill area - probably including the spur[s] you're referring to. Next chance I get I'm going to try to get a decent pic of that map.

Steve H
York, PA
8/26/2014

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RDG Marietta Branch

https://www.facebook.com/gregory.pawelski.9/media_set?set=a.850911295028493.1073741916.100003288929249&type=3

Gregory D. Pawelski
Wernersville, PA
11/2/2015

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Gregory, your link has expired, please update.

Jim English
Marietta, PA
11/3/2015

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Jim, the link is live. It's just when I'm adding more material to the album, I close it so people don't comment while I'm posting. Then reopen it. Boy! Did it bring back memories of tracing this branch thirty years ago. Part of my long, lost print collection.

Gregory D. Pawelski
Wernersville, PA
11/3/2015

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I can't get the link to work either, but I'm not much into Facebook, so perhaps I'm doing something wrong.

Brad
Houston, TX
11/3/2015

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Your best bet is with a PC. I've heard that Laptops and phones are not allowing entry into a lot of FB sites. I'm finding out it happens with my videos I try to post on FB. Can't post 1080p, has to limit it to 720p and that doesn't include some laptops and phones.

Gregory D. Pawelski
Wernersville, PA
11/3/2015

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TO ALL -

Here are pictures of the map/info board I was referring to.

This may answer a lot of questions...

https://www.facebook.com/thefirsttimerider/media_set?set=a.1039297142801579.1073741827.100001639088648&type=3

Steve H
York, PA
11/13/2015

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Here is the URL of the map pictures from the Chickies Hill parking area:

http://tiny.cc/9l3b6x

It shows the traction AND this rail line...

Steve H
York, PA
11/17/2015

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Shortened Link: http://a-r.us/p2b
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